A new guild in need of help

[Nighty]

We're a new guild (well new in GW, been together for over 2 years now), with a mix of somewhat experienced GW players and totally inexperienced ones. We've had our first batch of GvG's and could definitely use some help. Instead of just prating here I'm going to make a few questions, and hopefully someone here finds enough time to answer to them :)

Oh yeah and before I continue I want to point out that we come from another PvP game (now dead, that's the way of indie games I guess...) where we were one of the best, if not the best, guild. The game was kind of similar to GW, with less skills and classes but with more complex PvP modes. Just wanted to say this so you know we're not total noobs when it comes to PvP :P.


1. How should we approach our first GvG's? We've played some matches by now and so far have lost every single encounter (meaning any larger fights) with the enemy. So what I have suggested in our forums is that we focus on the combat aspect first, work with our builds and practise on target calling (seems to play a bigger role in this game than our previous), and completely ignore all the tactical stuff (running the flag, splitting, etc). Is that a smart thing to do?

2. What kind of builds/line-up should a beginner player/guild use? I know there's a tons of stuff on different wikis, but are they actually any good for new players? I mean, based on personal experience, most of the builds and line-up used by high level guilds are really hardcore and require of a lot of experience to fully utilize them. So what I'm looking for here is some suggestions to classes and builds which are "foolproof", simple to use but still effective.

3. Any words of advice on target calling? We have used that to some extent, but given the fact that our k/m (kills per matches) ratio is around one :P, there's probably a lot of room for improvement. So which classes should we focus on, who should participate in it (all or just some), etc.? Remember that we're new, so a "play by the situation" is probably not going to be that helpful ;).



Well that's that for now. I'm fairly sure that once we get our fighting in order the victories will come (we weren't that good fighters in the previous game either, mostly won by outsmarting the opponent). So hopefully someone can help us out :)

[DarkNecrid]

Since you guys said you were a top guild in another game, I'm going to make the assumption that you're used to losing from your way up to the top, and so: stick to balanced builds. Playing gimmicky builds isn't going to give you a lot of experience in real game situations, and while they might help you learn the basics, they're not going to make you better players. You're correct that a lot of the balanced builds have a lot of stuff you need to learn etc, but as new players who are very willing to learn, you'll get the most out of these. You're probably going to lose a lot, but you just have to remember that every loss is something new you're learning.

As for spikes, it does depends on builds, but in general everyone should be helping the spike, usually the monks won't be helping the damage too much although some might take stuff like

	EotN Castigation Signet 15 1 Signet. Target foe takes 26..50..58 holy damage. If that foe was attacking, you gain 1..8..11 Energy. (Attrib: Smiting Prayers)

 and they can throw that on there to add to the damage.

[awowa]

1. How should we approach our first GvG's? We've played some matches by now and so far have lost every single encounter (meaning any larger fights) with the enemy. So what I have suggested in our forums is that we focus on the combat aspect first, work with our builds and practise on target calling (seems to play a bigger role in this game than our previous), and completely ignore all the tactical stuff (running the flag, splitting, etc). Is that a smart thing to do?

Do Random arenas, Team arenas, and inhouse scrimming (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 3v5, 2v4, etc). Make sure everyone is working on something at the same time. Don't stop running flags or else when the time comes when you start running flags you'll be back to having to relearn what you do when your runner isn't there for whatever amount of time. Defensive splitting takes the longest to learn.

2. What kind of builds/line-up should a beginner player/guild use? I know there's a tons of stuff on different wikis, but are they actually any good for new players? I mean, based on personal experience, most of the builds and line-up used by high level guilds are really hardcore and require of a lot of experience to fully utilize them. So what I'm looking for here is some suggestions to classes and builds which are "foolproof", simple to use but still effective.

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page - Just choose a build that was rated 'great'. Mixing and matching works good too sometimes.

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_GvG_Balanced might be OK to start out with although if anyone splits on you you are SOL. Hexes are actually OK currently which is around the turnaround when rawr starting winning matches. Add in some defense hexes and it should let you focus more on your offense more as a byproduct.

3. Any words of advice on target calling? We have used that to some extent, but given the fact that our k/m (kills per matches) ratio is around one , there's probably a lot of room for improvement. So which classes should we focus on, who should participate in it (all or just some), etc.? Remember that we're new, so a "play by the situation" is probably not going to be that helpful .

From my targeting calling days:
1. Call targets that aren't protted or are 60 armor. They take the most damage.
2. Call warriors who are out of range of their monks (overextended).
3. Make sure everyone is casting skills even when a target is not called.
4. Make sure youre calling targets even if you don't have all your skills up (other players will). It's important to keep the pressure up like this.
5. Make sure you count in actual seconds and not just say 321 within a second. Players need the time to finish what they are doing before they can move on to your target.

[Midnight]

I was in the same position that you are in with my guild. we started off not so good, but once we started learning the basics we started to pick up all of the builds, spike calling, working together, and splitting(still working on that some). Other then that like awowa said you don't want to stop running flags because in this example your lord is under attack and your monks are back trying to heal the lord. While the rest of your team is doing the same thing as the other team. If you stop running flags your lord will not gain health at each morale and that will make your victory harder to achieve because their lord will have so much more health than yours will.

I would take awowa's advice with complete confidence because he and all of rawr have pretty much become one of our main mentors. They are a great team to learn from. One thing that i want to touch on i don't think that he talked about was obsing matches. that means that you hit the B key and pick a match that you want to observe(you will soon learn about teams that you are rooting for and teams that you don't really like). When you watch a match pay attention to the people that are doing what you guys are having touble with. For Example: If you guys are having problems with placement and formation (frontline, midline, and backline) pay attention to where everyone is standing and the tactics that they take to get away from enimies(called kiting).

There is just one thing that i want to say before i end.
Like one of my mentors say all the time, "rawr wasn't built in a day"
Just remember that every guild out there started at the same place that you are now, its something that everyone goes through and some people are still in it. Just keep practicing!

Good Luck with everything i hope my advice helps

Best of Luck,

Midnight

[Upside]

1. How should we approach our first GvG's? We've played some matches by now and so far have lost every single encounter (meaning any larger fights) with the enemy. So what I have suggested in our forums is that we focus on the combat aspect first, work with our builds and practise on target calling (seems to play a bigger role in this game than our previous), and completely ignore all the tactical stuff (running the flag, splitting, etc). Is that a smart thing to do?

I would actually do the opposite of what you've suggested. If you can get your entire team's mind around the tactical concept of the game (Positioning, splitting, calling, etc.) you're off to a very good start. Many lower-rank guilds tends to lose because of a few players who need to be told to do everything. After you get your team to understand the tactical idea of the game, you can start working on your 8v8 skills. A lot of guild wars is simply paying attention to what's happening and knowing how to react. After playing a bit, you'll learn to pay attention to the field a lot more. This alone will make you much better. After you get those down (or learned relatively well) you can focus on the combat aspect (Quarter-stepping, interrupts, and fine-tune stuff). This is personal preference, as, in my opinion, tactics are more important than how well your team plays. A good, although rather gimmicky, way to learn good splittage skills is to play BYOB (Bring your own build) a bit. It's quite fun. Basically you screw a team build, and just get 8 dudes together and run around in circles outmanuvering and powerplaying the opponent.

2. What kind of builds/line-up should a beginner player/guild use? I know there's a tons of stuff on different wikis, but are they actually any good for new players? I mean, based on personal experience, most of the builds and line-up used by high level guilds are really hardcore and require of a lot of experience to fully utilize them. So what I'm looking for here is some suggestions to classes and builds which are "foolproof", simple to use but still effective.

While I personally recommend against gimmicks, a simple "foolproof" build is the basic smiteway. You just grab a bunch of monk heroes with smiting prayers, on top of your other monks, and it lets you take a decent amount of pressure. You should probably just start with balanced and stick with it (Or play BYOB *Hint hint*)

3. Any words of advice on target calling? We have used that to some extent, but given the fact that our k/m (kills per matches) ratio is around one , there's probably a lot of room for improvement. So which classes should we focus on, who should participate in it (all or just some), etc.? Remember that we're new, so a "play by the situation" is probably not going to be that helpful .

Spike "squishy" targets. Any caster class with 60 armor will take the full damage from your spike. Watch for prots. One of the most basic ways to not spike a protted target is to simply spike a target not currently under attack. Other than that, it's just watching and keeping track of prots. Most of the time, you want everyone that can spike to be on the spike. This includes mesmers with Shatter Enchantment and Necros with some random damage skill. Basically, whatever you can hit the target with, hit 'em with it; however, sometimes it would be more advantageous to do an "off-spike." When one warrior or a ranger spikes a different target, preferably something low, so you can threaten to kill 2 targets. I really can't say when it's definitively better to do an off-spike, and when it's better not to, as there are too many variables. (and I suck at calling) Basically, if something is hurting your team bad, maybe a BSurge Ele, a particularly good dom mesmer, or a key player in a gimmick build, do whatever it takes to kill it, and push hard during the time you have with them down. A good example would be bloodspike. If you can drop the caller, you stand a much better chance against the massive lifestealing.

[Snuff]

Here's some recommendations:

- When you're starting out with a new group, play a proven and forgiving build so that you have more time to think and work on positioning and you don't have to concentrate as much on staying alive. Something like the build rawr currently runs would be a good place to start. By having a sizable amount of defense, you and your players can apply brain time to things other than survival and running your skillbars. You won't learn anything if you die in two minutes.

- Don't be afraid to try things that may seem weird to you at first. Sometimes a crazy idea can win you a match, other times it can lose you a match. A large component of the game is trial-and-error. If you lose a match, try to figure out why, and don't do that again. You can't expect a new guild with less-experienced players to immediately always do the right stuff. Even a new guild formed with experienced players is going to have issues with communication and tactics. A synergy, or at least a familiarity, with how your players react needs to be built first.

- Keep communications lines open. Ideally, people should keep their chatting to a minimum; reporting important things, saying what you intend to do, and the like. People that chatter/rage/talk a lot on vent make the whole thing into a disaster because then nobody knows what's going on. Being able to hear your flagger and monks is of utmost importance. The monks, obviously, need to be listened to when they complain about shutdown or low energy--more on this later. The flagger is among the most influential players in a match. Boneheaded plays by flaggers causes party wipes. Good plays by flaggers can turn games around.

- Help your monks. If they complain about shutdown (mesmers and the like), do something about it or you will die. If it's a mesmer, put some interrupts on him, or if you can't do that for whatever reason, put a Warrior on him as much as you can. A mesmer that is busy kiting damage will at least be slowed down, and it doesn't cost you a whole lot of damage potential to do this since mesmers have ~60 armor. If monks complain about energy, react appropriately. Retreat a bit, split someone off, play defensively, or maybe do all of them. Of crucial importance is making good use of running from damage. If you see warriors going for you, run. Any damage not taken directly translates into monk energy conserved. If you are a monk, and you have a Warrior chasing you in circles, be glad. You're doing your job (keeping the team alive) and that Warrior is not.

- Don't forget the important synergy between defense and offense. If your offense is working, your defense will naturally work as well. If your warriors are putting out big damage, then the other team won't be able to spend the energy to keep their offense clean and you will take a lot less pressure. A team that doesn't put out damage will lose eventually if they don't attempt splitting, flag pushes, or other things to get something done.

- Basic Warrior tips: Attack targets that aren't protted if you can help it. Try to stick to ~60AL caster-types for the most part, but don't be afraid to spike an overextended warrior to get him off of your backline. Don't lineback unless your monks are in dire straits and you feel that linebacking will help them catch back up. Spiking rangers is a waste of time since nowadays since they tend to bring one or more block stances. Don't be afraid to use your attack skills. In regards to spiking, drawing prots out and spiking something else during their recharges is far more important than going for the big Omegaspike. All that said, sometimes it's good to save up an Omegaspike. Try not to run around too much. If you're chasing someone, you're not dealing damage.

- Monk tips: Watch the field. Guardian spam on targets warriors are going for or are attacking. Figure out how to get the most mileage out of your skills--efficiency is pretty much the first rule of monking. As a rule, pre-prots are far more efficient use of energy than post-prots. If you prot early, that guy will take a lot less damage. If you prot late, you'll have to heal him up too. Try to keep an energy reserve of 10 or more energy for catching spikes. The prot monk will tend to ride lower energy than the heal monk due to RC and guardian spamming. Against Power Block, the heal monk should be the guardian spammer and the RC should only use it when Power Block is recharging. RC usage should be cut to a minimum against Power Block. One method used is to have each monk follow an enemy melee around with Guardian. Pick a warrior, guardian what he goes for. If done well, this absolutely kills the other team's pressure output since Warriors are the only true damage in the game.

For monk practice:
- Healing NPCs, play Alliance Battle.
- Surviving high-pressure solo-monk situations, do TA or scrim against other people in your guild.
- Infusing and spike catching: HA is the only place other than GvG where infuse is useful.

- The most important thing to remember is to play. Try to keep people in the same or similar spots as much as you can. Familiarity with a bar frees up a lot of brain time for tactical thinking.

[lutz]

If done well, this absolutely kills the other team's pressure output since Warriors are the only true damage in the game.

	Nightfall Burning Arrow 5 10 Elite Bow Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +10..26..31 damage and cause Burning for 1..6..7 seconds. (Attrib: Marksmanship)

	Core Read the Wind 12 2 5 Preparation. For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast and deal 3..9..10 extra damage. (Attrib: Marksmanship)

	Core Hunter's Shot 5 1 5 Bow Attack. If Hunter's Shot hits, you strike for +3..13..16 damage. If this attack hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins Bleeding for 3..21..26 seconds. (Attrib: Marksmanship)

	Core Savage Shot 5 ½ 10 Bow Attack. If Savage Shot hits, your target's action is interrupted. If that action was a Spell, you strike for +13..25..29 damage. (Attrib: Marksmanship)

	Nightfall Flail 4 Stance. For 5..13..16 seconds, you attack 33% faster but move 33% slower. (Attrib: Strength)

	Core Distracting Shot 10 ½ 5 Bow Attack. If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1..13..17 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds. (Attrib: Expertise)

	Core Lightning Reflexes 30 10 Stance. For 5..10..11 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block melee and projectile attacks, and you attack 33% faster. (Attrib: Expertise)

	Core Resurrection Signet 3 Signet. Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. This signet only recharges when you gain a morale boost.